Joy as an Organizing Strategy, Planning for Care Over Chaos, and Ending Child Sexual Abuse w/ Tasmica Torok

Tashmica Torok joins David Ryan Barcega Castro-Harris to talk about joy as an organizing strategy, why we should plan for care over chaos, and her decades long efforts to end child sexual abuse.

In this conversation, Tashmica shares how joy and community care have sustained her activism, what it takes to build hope in the midst of grief and injustice, and why treating children as full human beings is essential to preventing violence. 

She reflects on stepping away from nonprofit leadership, the lessons she’s carrying forward through Aletheia Coaching & Consulting, and the many roles people can play in creating safer, more connected communities.

Topics we cover:

• Joy as a survival skill and organizing strategy
• Planning for care instead of chaos
• Lessons from a decade leading The Firecracker Foundation
• Survivor-led approaches to healing and prevention
• Building resilient, abolitionist communities

Learn more:
Follow Tashmica Torok →  https://tashmicatorok.com/

Hear our conversation Tuesday August 12 https://tjparenting.substack.com/

Follow Amplify RJ & David → http://amplifyrj.com/links

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• 17:11 [Ad] The Education News Comedy Quiz -- Some of the Above
• 18:00 (Cont.) Joy as an Organizing Strategy, Planning for Care Over Chaos, and Ending Child Sexual Abuse w/ Tasmica Torok

Transcript

David 00:00

Welcome back to the Amplify RJ podcast. I'm David Ryan Barcega Castro Harris. All five names for all the ancestors. And today I have with me back on this podcast, Tashmika Tarok. And we start the same way that we always do. Introduce yourself to the audience in the ways that you want to be known. Who are you? 

Tashmica 00:20

My name is Tashmica Torok. I am a survivor activist who has been working to end child sexual abuse pretty much all my life, whether I knew it or not. 

David 00:32

Who are you? 

Tashmica 00:34

I am someone who was raised in the Christian Evangelical Fundamental Church and who is. I kind of am shocked by how different I am from who I was raised to be and grateful to be different from who I was raised to be. 

David 00:53

Who are you? 

Tashmica 00:55

I am someone who I like to consider being joyfully disruptive. I love to infuse joy and playfulness into all kinds of work. And even better when we're having a challenging conversation and I can lighten the room in lots of fun ways. 

David 01:17

Who are you? 

Tashmica 01:19

I'm a gardener. I'm always growing things, experimenting with what happens in my yard with the various trees and plants, and really figuring out how to love the earth in a sustainable way and in a healing way. 

David 01:38

Who are you? 

Tashmica 01:39

I'm a mother. I am a former wife. I am a sister, a best friend, a bestie. And I'm probably some people's enemy, Sworn enemy. 

David 01:58

And finally, for now, who are you? 

Tashmica 02:02

I am someone who remains hopeful despite all of the evidence and even my own contrarian nature about what's possible in the world. 

David 02:14

Yeah, so much there. And we're going to explore lots of those aspects. For those of you who are following my work, I had a conversation with Tash Mika preparing for this and also the conversation we're going to have next Tuesday, which is August 12th on her substack platform about transformative justice infused parenting. So if you want to participate in that, go sign up. I'll say that right up front, but we were talking about mapping out this conversation and that conversation, and we shared a little bit about this moment and how we're feeling heavy, how we're feeling what some would call burnout. And, you know, since we've had that conversation, a lot of people appreciated what was able to be shared that we gleaned from a transcript. But I'm curious, just for you, how have you been maintaining that hope? Right? Hope is a discipline. What is the work that you've been putting in to keep hope alive for yourself? 

Tashmica 03:13

It has been a number of years since I made a. An agreement with myself that the most important work that I'm going to do in my life is going to be with the most intimate relationships I have. And so when I think about what's happening in the world, I remember that the best gift I can give my children is to be a regulated mother. The best gift that I can give my loved ones is my presence and my care and making people feel like they belong. And so I think what makes me feel hopeful is that I'm not overly invested in what is happening outside of that circle. And I don't mean ignoring politics, of course. And I feel like everybody has to always say that caveat, as if we could ignore it. But let me just say it up front that I'm not saying I'm hiding from the world or my. What I consider to be my responsibility in those ways. However, I think it's very grounding to be able to focus on things that we can put both of our hands on. And I think that sometimes we forget in the grand scheme of the work that we're trying to do in the world for the wider population, that the people around us are important. And that is where I drive most of my hope is visibly seeing what it means when I'm really invested in community care within my own networks. 

David 04:43

Yeah, I mentioned to my wife a couple days ago a shift that I was making for myself about presence with our three year old when he's taking the extra seven seconds to turn off the water. And you know, we'll talk more about that in our conversation on Tuesday. But the shift really is about what is needed in this present moment. Nothing that I'm gonna do in this present moment is going to save a child from starving in Gaza. Right. Nothing that I'm gonna do in this exact moment is going to stop Border patrol and ICE from snatching people off of the street. But this little being in front of me needs me to not have my head there and be attuned to like, oh, how cool is water, right? How does it feel on your skin? And that presence not ghosting our kids, I think that's the framework that you introduced was really powerful for me and has. Has stuck with me, so I'm grateful for that. What has pouring into those relationships look. 

Tashmica 05:51

Like most recently, Honestly, it's been hosting parties and I. The, the funnest thing probably that I've done in a while is I invited my friends over for what I called Judgment Day. And it started with a meme that a friend shared with me. That was like, why are judges the only ones who get to have gavels and like bang them and tell people to shut the fuck up? Why can't I do that? And I said to my friend, I was like, we should get gavels and make a night of it, you know, like go out on the town. And then I was like, well, as I'm thinking through it, I'm like, we'll get kicked out, right? Like, we can't just be telling people to be quiet with a gavel. But I was like, how fun would it be if everybody came over and presented a low stakes case for the group of friends to judge? And so I, I don't know how other people are feeling, but I certainly feel pent up in terms of what is happening in the world and how I feel about it and who is listening and who is going to take actionable steps to protect some of those people that you're naming or who's going to take actionable steps to move our like collective consciousness towards more healing justice. However, it was really fun to be in my living room and be making cases for silly arguments that matter in our day to day but don't matter in the grand scheme of things. My friend Bob bought me a gavel, so now I own one for whatever reason. But it's really inspired by two things. Number one, the history of how we have protected our joy as black people, as people of color. We have archival footage of so many of our heroes, so many of our ancestors that we admire and love and look up to for legacy, for the footsteps we want to follow in that are. And they're at parties, they're like loving on each other, they're celebrating, they're taking the time to really break bread with one another. And so for that, because I think that's so important, especially right now when I feel more like curling up into like a little ball and just staying away from people. But we know that connection, community is so important for our health and well being. And it's my way of supporting other people that I love in being out in the world and really challenging ways that maybe I can't participate in. So there's that piece and then there's also the piece of. For the past couple of years have been some really big transitions in my life that have made me feel like I didn't want to be perceived in a full way, which meant that I wasn't actually hosting people very much. I'm. Anybody who knows me well should be able to tell you that I love a Party. And I love a themed party, and I love a ridiculous idea that we just follow all the way through just for fun. Like, I literally just recommended a yard crawl instead of a bar crawl for my friends who are trying to, like, learn how to identify plants. I'm like, how fun would it be if it was a yard crawl instead of a bar crawl, and we're just identifying plants together and building that knowledge? And so not doing that for a while wasn't even an intentional choice. But it's like looking up at the past year and being like, wow, I really haven't even had people in my home because so much of this has felt very internal and like a metamorphosis that, like, a caterpillar gets all gooey inside of the cocoon, and I'm like, don't look at me. And now that I'm starting, I'm starting to feel my way into a different space. Language I can't find for the space, but it feels like another thing, another way, another place. It feels like the right time to be inviting people back into my space. 

David 09:32

Yeah, we're gonna go back to those transitions in a moment because, you know, that's a lot of what we have to talk about. But, like, on the. That Judgment Day party sounds like, lit. And I have a case to bring. 

Tashmica 09:46

I can't wait to hear. 

David 09:48

Wait, do you have your gavel? 

Tashmica 09:49

I don't. It's downstairs. 

David 09:53

We can pause if you want to grab it. 

Tashmica 09:54

Yeah, actually, I will go grab it. Hold on. Okay, so I. I tell people that my home decor aesthetic is like, why is this here? And so, like, this has been sitting on my dining room table for the past couple weeks since the party. And you can tell my children have been having fun with it. It's, like, totally bruised, but, yes, I'm ready. Ready to rule on your hot take for. 

David 10:20

For. So I know, is someone. Are you going to present opposing arguments, or are you gonna just question it? Or is it. Is it just, like. 

Tashmica 10:29

So at our party. Yes. We asked clarifying questions. We offered alternative thoughts. Some people added things that made the argument better. So. 

David 10:38

All right, here's the hot take. Asymmetrical socks should be banned. There's no need for them. They're bad for the environment. Right. Because most people, like myself, tread heavier on one foot, and so one sock wears out faster. And so you're just left with an extra sock that you can't do anything with. You're going to throw it away. So that's just taking up space in either landfills. Or in your dresser, unless you're a mismatched sock person, which no shade if you are like, it's just not stylistically what I prefer as much as the comfort for socks paired to one feet can be like they're not actually ever custom towards your foot. And so if you have the extra padding in symmetrical socks, you're probably going to just as much benefit. I rest my case. Or I'll take questions. 

Tashmica 11:32

So I have actually never even heard of asymmetrical socks. 

David 11:37

Oh. So asymmetrical socks are socks where there's like one for the left, one for the right, so they're like shaped a little bit more towards the curve of the front of your toes. 

Tashmica 11:47

Is there like some kind of benefit, like podiatry or like is there something. 

David 11:51

That a lot of runners use them for, like the extra cushioning, like the custom cushioning and like I understand the benefits it and it's wasteful. 

Tashmica 12:02

As a citizen and friend of this good earth, I am going to go ahead and judge in your favor. So they're banned from now on. You heard it here first. 

David 12:12

You heard it here first. 

Tashmica 12:13

And I hit the gavel. That makes it. That's solid. That's it. 

David 12:18

May it be known. 

Tashmica 12:19

May it be known. So shall it be. 

David 12:23

And like, so you know silly ways to engage like this, right? Do build community, do let you get to know people in different ways. You learn things like asymmetrical socks for runners do exist. 

Tashmica 12:36

Right. 

David 12:37

And hey, this is a another way that we can be mindful about the environment. As a not so subtle plug to the 180 questions for Connected classrooms that I have for folks in education, when you give people opportunities to share with each other, not just about like how are you feeling today? Which is an important thing to do, but like ask people to share stories about themselves, their opinions, their thoughts, their beliefs. Doing that publicly in the context of a classroom, in the context of a party, in the context of a community allows for so many more connections to be made. So then you can move forward in relationship with knowing people. You have more relational capital when you're navigating conflict with somebody. Right? So subtle. Not so subtle plug link to wherever you can purchase that wherever you're watching this. But you know, those moments of connection are beautiful. What was also running through my mind is like, oh, it must be nice to not have a 1 in 3 year old, right? 

Tashmica 13:32

Yeah. 

David 13:34

And I swear like I'll try not to keep like bringing up the parenting stuff here. We'll save that for Tuesday. 

Tashmica 13:39

No, no, it's okay. 

David 13:41

Like, there's seasons, right? And, you know, you're in a season where your kids can either participate more fully or, like, sia, I'm gonna be doing my own thing. 

Tashmica 13:52

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 

David 13:53

But what is this season where you're hosting things brought for you. Like, you talked about, like, hope, connection, but, you know, maybe even tangibly, what does that brought for you? 

Tashmica 14:03

It's interesting that you mentioned younger children, because I have a friend who lives around the corner who brought over their three year old, who is my toddler friend. You know what I mean? Like, when my blackberries were in season, I was like, do you want to come over and have a you pick? You know, like, we could pretend like you're coming to my farm, you know? And so part of what this period has given me is just more capacity to support other parents, to support people with that energy, with what I've learned or what I can offer as someone who has older children. Doesn't mean I know more necessarily, but it's almost like how grandparents have more patience for what they didn't even have patience for you to do. I know when I watched my parents become grandparents, I was like, what the hell? And so there's a little bit of that, and I think that extends into the social justice work. There is a lot of grief to be had right now. There's a lot of things to grieve. There are a lot of things that I can't tangibly change. And I can't even necessarily be in the same room with a large group of people that agree with me all the time about the ways that our way, that our country specifically is being shaped right. If I decide to participate in what we consider to be our political process. But what I can do is I can give myself time with my loved ones to be in those feelings together, to talk about what's happening, even if it's a light touch. And most of the focus is on how we're spending our time together. Enjoy. We're also recognizing that part of the reason that these moments feel so good for us is because the entire country is in shambles and misalignment with what our values are. And so being able to be together and recognize ourselves as queer folks, recognize ourselves as people of color, recognize ourselves as people with disabilities and treat each other with care and treat each other in a way that helps us all feel more seen is, to me, shoring myself up. It's reminding me that what we are seeing isn't the whole story. What we are seeing that is scary isn't the sum of everybody's beliefs. Right? Like, we know that there's. There's a lot of stuff being done right now that has nothing to do with what the American people want. And so I think, for me, it feels important to tap into that because it gets really easy to be like, everybody hates me. Everybody wants me to die. Die. And it's like, no, that's actually not true. What is happening is actually completely in opposition to what a lot of American people believe, even the ones that are not even what you would consider leftists or radicals or abolitionists, just by virtue of the inhumanity that we're seeing. I feel like people are shifting even more towards those directions, but they're not there yet. But they still wholeheartedly disagree. 

David 17:11

And when you know people on that level, they're a lot more likely to be the ones who are going to protect you. Right? 

Tashmica 17:17

That's right. 

David 17:18

Like, just like, this is an organizing strategy. 

Tashmica 17:20

Yeah, Joy is an organizing strategy, 100%. And at. When people are at my home, I leave out my flyers about ice, right? I'm like, hey, do you want this flyer to remember what you're supposed to say or remember what you're supposed to report if you have an ice sighting close by? These are the people that I would call on, and I would hope that that is reciprocal, that they would call on me. And part of this is also a strategy of, like, I want to know what your skills are, what you bring to any given space. You know, I have friends who are incredibly imaginative and creative and skilled and, like, lots of different ways. And, you know, I have joked for years that, like, my apocalypse skills are super soft. And so I'm like, you are gonna want me on the team because conflict is gonna happen, and you're gonna want somebody who can hold a circle. I'm just gonna need you to keep me alive while I'm canning your tomatoes. You know what I mean? 

David 18:20

Picking the berries. Exactly. 

Tashmica 18:22

Yeah. Like, I'm hosting the you pick and the joyful parties. Those of you with hard skills, I'm gonna need you around me too. And we could, you know, we can share, because that's the other thing is. And we talked about this on our podcast, so. The Papaganda podcast, which we talk about transformative justice and abolition. Me and my pop culture bestie, Shannon Prez Darby, who is the best. And we love tv, and we've been able to transition this into conversations about abolition themes that we're seeing in tv. Right? So we did an episode on the King of the Apocalypse, which is about Stuart Rhodes, who is a base, is basically the person who came up with the idea for the Insurrection. He was a person who is incredibly abusive to his family. And he's sort of in his mind of the following, sort of this Christian theology is a prepper. So he's honestly scaring the shit out of his family and forcing them into these, like, training simulations. But all of these training simulations are related to survival in the way that they're learning how to use weapons and be violent and hide. And for like, some of it was the foraging, prepping stuff, but a lot of it had to do with being prepared for violence. 

David 19:37

Kill or be killed, right? 

Tashmica 19:38

Kill or be killed. And what I was talking to Shannon about is that one thing that I think is really interesting about, and interesting may not be the right word, but interesting about the Christian perspective on the end of the world and. And very specifically evangelical fundamental Christians, is that there is an expectation with the Rapture that everything falls into chaos. And what I said is that if we plan for chaos, we will get chaos. If all we are doing, when we think about things getting hard, if we think about imposed scarcity and what that means, if all we think about is protecting our little. Our little hoard of things that we manage to, I guess, board from capitalism, I don't know, you know, like our prepper stuff, then we will get chaos. We will invite chaos. If we plan for community and care, then we will have community and care. And so I'm challenging that idea that, like, if the government were to not be able to function in the way that it has been before, that there will always be horrible chaos that is uncontrollable. There will be. I mean, we know there'll be scarcity. We can't fool ourselves. And also we know that in a lot of disaster zones, what happens is people help each other. It is not always a fight to the top of the mountain. It's people have a way of caring for and loving one another. And I'm always like, why are you so certain that everyone around you, the moment things get hard, you're going to be in a battle to the death. I don't have that kind of community. I want to shape a community around myself, with my loved ones, that we are ready and willing to do community and care, even in the midst of chaos. That is the strategy for justice, for healing, for a future where everybody belongs and has what they need. A future where we are just hoarding guns and food and hiding in a hole is not a future I want to be a part of. 

David 21:40

The cynical part of me is like. And if it comes to that, you won't be. Yeah, right. 

Tashmica 21:46

I will not be. It's true. Right. 

David 21:51

Because I mean, I've thought a lot about zombie shows and like, who survives in those shows? It is what's at least portrayed in the shows. It's the people who are willing to get their hands dirty in this way. Those are generally the protagonists that shows like that follow the Last of Us and you know, others go Walking dead. 

Tashmica 22:12

All of them. 

David 22:13

Yeah. 

Tashmica 22:13

No. Well, the one thing I will say though is Community Care is not a community that lacks self defense. Right. It is not a community that isn't willing to protect itself. That's not what I mean. I don't mean that I'm going to be traipsing around in the meadows of flowers while the zombies are chasing me. I just mean that there is an ideological difference between centering that self defense around community versus centering that self defense around hoarding and fighting people to keep them away from you. Because the other thing that I, that I know is that I've learned from TV mainly since we're talking about zombie shows, I was talking about, I don't know if you've ever watched that show alone. So it's a survivalist show where they bring, I don't know, a number of survivalists out into the wild tundra of a place and they drop them individually and they are meant to stay there with. It's sort of like naked and afraid. They have a small amount of tools, but they are supposed to survive in the wilderness alone the longest and that's how they win. And one of the prevailing lessons that I have gotten from that show, which I think is pretty supported by history and what we understand is that it is pretty impossible to survive alone because somebody has to tend the fire while somebody else is hunting. Somebody has to hunt while somebody is building the shelter. Somebody has to build the shelter while somebody else is foraging. It requires community in order to do what needs to be done in a survivalist situation. And if you watch that show, you will watch these people so suffer, honey. And I'm like, okay, if I learn nothing from this show, the number one lesson that builds upon what I'm saying is that we should not be attempting to survive in isolation. It will be so much harder. 

David 24:08

Yeah. The last two TV shows that I've watched with the bandwidth that I have as a parent were andor and the Last of Us and with both of those this idea, well, and. Or pretty explicitly the theme of like, rebellion and revolution comes to mind. But like, organizing is so important. Right. At Yavin 4, the rebel base. Right. Most of the people aren't out there flying missions, doing spycraft, shooting mofos. Like most people. There are mechanics, cooks, people who are doing logistics. Of course they're the politicians, but they're the healers. They're like all those people who are doing that work in the Last of Us, most of the citizens of Jackson or most, for those of you who played the video game, most of the people who align with the wlf, most of them aren't the soldiers out on patrol or fighting. Most of them are tending to crops, making horseshoes, like, doing those things. I was listening to Jon Stewart, the Daily show guy, talk to Tony Gilroy, the creator of Andor and another historian on his podcast. And one of the things that they were talking about was that the idea of rebellions or revolutions, efforts are divided up into fighting the enemy, feeding people and dealing with infighting. Right. Most of that work is not like fighting the enemy. We need people to do all of these things. And so as we find ourselves in this moment, there are some people who are going to do the boots on the ground in the front lines as we like think of protest, direct action, disruption, even like policy legislation. Like that is part of it. But I think about the show on Andor, where they were on the planet where they were refugees. And I think about the family who sheltered them for months and like put up a front that like, oh, no, this is my cousin, this is my so and so, who's. Who's just here. And the Death Star doesn't get blown up. If they had not been sheltered on this planet for months, years at a time. Right. And that person who was putting in that effort, family who's putting in that effort was not like on the front lines doing the work that is often glorified. But like, Luke Skywalker doesn't get to shoot proton torpedoes into the vents of the Death Star without him. Right, Right. There are all these roles that we can play in these movements. And I know you might have a response to that. But I also want to think about, you know, you've historically done a lot of front facing activism work through the Firecracker foundation. And that has been a transition into something else now. So, like, we can use that as a segue. But I also want to give you, like, space to respond to what I shared in general. 

Tashmica 26:42

Yeah, I was just going to. I think what has My attention right now when I'm thinking about what I'm worried about and what care is going to be necessary is truly the elders and children. We know our schools are losing funding, and we know our elders are losing their medical care and lots of social support. And so I think we watch people really center self defense in this imagination. And we just like everything else under the patriarchy, we forget that there are actual human beings that will need to be cared for and that people will need to learn how to do that. And I'm afraid that we have not. And I'm fairly certain that we have not spent enough time invested in figuring out how to build relationships with the people closest to us that might need care in a way that, number one, we may not even know. They may not even know that they can ask. And, you know, have you ever taken care of an elder? Have you ever provided practical, tangible care to a child? What does it look like to try to build those skills in the moment? Because those are probably the skills that are going to be needed first before anything else. We have people that literally will just need practical care. Yeah. 

David 28:02

Things as simple as, like, childcare for people. Like, you know, the most tangible thing that I think of that I've seen, like, done with not low effort below lift is like, childcare while parents are participating in direct action. But, like, it's not just, like, I'm going to send my kid to, like, some rando who says, I'm going to do that. Right. Like, doing it within a circle of trust with people who you're in relationship with, who you have these conversations with and say, like, hey, I don't have capacity to do XYZ action, but I do have capacity to provide childcare. I do have capacity to hold space for you and be a place where you debrief with a hot meal. Like, those things are just as important. 

Tashmica 28:41

Mm, absolutely. Absolutely. 

David 28:44

So you all have your roles, you all have your special abilities. Yours have been displayed in so many ways over the years. Do you want to talk people through, like, what the Firecracker foundation is and was and the transition out? Because, like, I know the last time that we talked, you had just started the process of winding things down, maybe just like, even in your mind. 

Tashmica 29:07

Yeah. Yeah. So the Firecracker foundation is, is and was an organization that I founded in 2013 as a child survivor of sexual assault. I was looking to create something that matched sort of like an equation. The things that I felt helped me when I was younger and offered some of the things that I felt Like I didn't have to. Youth and families here in the local area of Lansing. And that work turned into providing mental health care, providing. We had a restorative justice program. We had a doula program. We were doing Title 9 advocacy. And it grew and it grew and it grew. And in 2024, we sunset. But in 2023, what I like to say, it was sort of like the intersection between force and choice. The conditions for an organization like the one we created was really not good anymore. Right. The funding was starting to dry up. The way that people were focusing their energy on what unfortunately, like the political, you know, we want to protect democracy. And so some of our funding went that way. And. And Frankly, I am 45 years old and I have been talking about child sexual abuse since I was 15. I was a little tired and was really struggling to figure out how to shift out of leadership as a founder. So in 2020, we transitioned into a co directorship model with two of my colleagues, Tara Scott Miller and Carolyn Abide. And that was part of my strategy, was to be able to move and shift out of leadership. And also we just really ran out of time to give it to somebody else, given the conditions. And so, like I said, force, choice. But also, I really am now sitting in a space where I have a lot of freedom in a different way than when you are the executive director or the co director of representing a whole organization or representing, in theory, a community of survivors. And so while I am of course grateful and always will be grateful that people trusted me to do that work and that we were able to have the impact that we did, I said on day one that, like, if we had to be done on day one, I feel like it's a net gain. I've already done more than I imagined doing ever. Like, everything that I. That I have participated in under the mantle of that organization was not necessarily a visioned plan. It was a need happened. And I have enough audacity and delusion to believe that I could have created something to address that need and convinced other people to help me. And then we did that thing, and then that thing shifted and we made another thing. And so I feel like I am so grateful for that. I've learned so much. I joke that I'm like Liam Neeson from Taken. I have a unique set of skills because I can't even explain the things. To figure out how to write a resume at this point feels really. It's like a rabbit out of a hat. What else can I pull out of here? What else did I figure out during this journey. And also being able to just be a person that is just making a way for myself versus for a group of people is something that I feel like I really needed at this time in my life. There is no way to do work around child sexual abuse at that level and have the space you need to be. Well, in my opinion, like at that point, I. It had gone on for so long and I loved it, but I just, I'm like, I'm so tired. Tired all the way down to my bones. And it was just time to do something different. And if I couldn't pass it on and do it different, I had to just let it go so that I could sustain myself and what I want to, what I see for myself in the future. 

David 33:09

Two paths to take with this one. I'm. I'm thinking back to what you said about if you plan for chaos, you'll get chaos. If you plan for care, you'll get care. And when you say there was never really like a grand plan for like what happened at the Firecracker Foundation, I'm curious how those two energies sit with you as you reflect on the process of the real logistical struggles of like, funding, for example, but also like the emotional, physical, spiritual toll that that took on you and the people who you were working alongside. 

Tashmica 33:46

I think first of all, as a person, I was just joking that being a consultant is like, I have created a job where I have monetized my ability and my desire to info dump as a neurodivergent person. You know, I'm like, oh, you want me to do a training on this thing that I'm super curious about? I would happily do research and then you can invite 50 of your friends and I'll info dump all over you. Let's go. Like, that's literally what some of my consultation is. It's just like building trainings for people that may or may not already exist. And it allows me to be in this world where I constantly learning. And I really love that novelty. That's the way my brain is made. And when I think about why there was not a plan, it was because the plan was honoring the bravery of children who had experienced experience sexual violence by building a community invested in their whole being. And so when I found out that the youth we were working with were experiencing Title IX violations on campus and that the schools were not providing them with what they were supposed to be getting, that what their rights were, essentially it was like, oh, well, why don't we do some advocacy at the school level. And then because that's the job, right? Like if we have kids who are excluded, experiencing gender based violence at school and I have an organization, I have an institution, right. That is respected and has some weight in the community, then I have no problem knocking on the door of a school and being like, what's up? What are we doing? I'll go to the meetings, that's fine. You know, and that's sort of what the energy was like. And I think it's those two things. The thing that I the, the creativity, the way that I can always see a possibility sometimes to my own detriment after. It's like we talked about the Walking Dead a little bit, but there's that episode where they're like, it's the hope that kills you, but it's also like the hope that keeps you going. So there's that tension between those two things. But the creativity that I naturally lean towards was that. But then it was also like wanting to make sure that whenever it was possible that we were fulfilling that mission. And when you're small and scrappy, you can be more flexible and more pliable than other organizations can be. And so there were many times where we were just like, maybe we'll, this will be a program. I don't know how it's going to go, but there's a need and that part we're certain about. So I feel like that's sort of the mixture of like chaos and creativity and planfulness. Because I don't want to give the impression that there was no plan because of course we have a mission, we have values that we're lining these things up against. And also healing work is, we say all the time, healing is not linear. So if organizations, community groups, whatever, if everything that we're doing is linear, then how are we matching what the people healing are doing? Right. Like their needs are not going to be linear. And so trying to figure out how to wrap ourselves around what those needs are and expand and shrink as necessary just felt like a natural part of the work that we were doing at the time. 

David 36:59

Yeah, and that totally makes sense from the perspective of really started from the people in your immediate circle, like responding to the needs. I'm going to frame like the second pathway that I mentioned a little bit differently now because I sit in the position of somebody who so not for a decade, but for the past five years from the ground up, like created an organization and like things are financially, logistically given the socio political climate, rough my capacity as a now young Parent or a parent of, like, young ones, like, is different. And I've wrestled with the, like, do I keep doing this when, like, the money, like, isn't logistically there? Having, like, tough conversations with clients who had planned to spend tens of thousands of dollars on development for their staff and support for their staffing. Like, sorry, it's just not there. And I'm like, of course that sucks for my family. But it also sucks that, like, you're having to lay off people because of these budget cuts. Like, don't worry about me. And at the same time, how am I feeding the Castro Harris family? So if you've made it this far into the podcast, you're someone who cares enough about the work of Amplify rj so you know the ways to engage. And I'm not gonna, like, list them all. They're in the show notes or the description of wherever you're talking about that. But you didn't come to this decision easily because when you say, I started this to address child sexual assault. Right. Like, that still happens every day in your community. And like, the Firecracker foundation as an entity is no longer there to advocate for support and do work around that for people in your community. The leading version of this question is like, how do you sit with the guilt? Right. But the more open ended question is like, how does that. How do you sit with the weight of that and the feelings that come with that? And how have you processed over the last few years? 

Tashmica 38:49

Yeah, well, I. I don't feel any guilt. And I can say that completely honestly because I have given over a decade of my life to this community in a myriad of ways. When I even think about just, just the people that were close to me, that were on the board, that were staff, and just the impact on our individual lives, I don't have any guilt about not being able to be there anymore because I also don't believe that it's my responsibility to end child sexual abuse or that it's my responsibility to remain in that role for this community. I think part of what has actually allowed me to step away is, is that I feel complete. I feel like the work that I did with the Firecracker foundation was meant for that time period. I think that ending child sexual abuse in the way that we were attempting to do it was actually more about healing survivors. It was more about advocating for safer spaces and for people to respond to disclosures appropriately, make sure that they're not violating the rights of survivors. All of those things are important. And also the work that needs to be done to end child sexual abuse does not end with survivors. And so the work start really or start. And I think the more that I did the work, the more that I recognized that I was fighting a system to do work to help survivors heal, and that if I wanted to do work that was more related to actually ending sexual violence, right, like ending some of the causes and conditions that allow it to happen, that I was, number one, becoming less fundable. You know, I mean, honestly, that's that, number one. Number two, because people have not been on that journey. Most people have not been in work like I have been in. Most people have not had the experience of being a child survivor who has started a nonprofit and run it for 10 years and worked in lots of different institutions and seen those institutions from the inside. Most people cannot speak to the fact that what we are doing is not working. What we are doing is not actually ending child sexual abuse. It is not even necessarily prevention work, because the things that would actually end sexual violence are things that we don't want to invest in. We do not want to invest in making sure that children have their basic needs met. We don't want to invest in affordable housing. We don't want it in the prison industrial complex. We do not want to provide people with mental health care. We do not want to provide people with social supports. We do not even want to make sure that families can stay together. We do not want to abolish the family policing system. All of those things and up to and including. The other thing that has my attention right now is that I think people are missing about ICE raids, detentions, and deportation, is that anytime those things happen, we are also going to see women and children experiencing sexual violence and. And probably men, too. And we don't talk about that. We talk about a lot of the things that happen around immigration and detention, but we don't talk about the children who were in detention centers during Trump's last presidency where so many experienced child sexual abuse at the hands of Border Patrol agents who never actually even saw any charges. And so I have been consistently saying to people that if we cannot hold people accountable that are in these positions of power, where do you think those people go after they clock out at the end of the day? They don't disappear, my friends. They go right back into the community. And so it just started to feel like I was when I first started the organization. Someone gave me this story that's like someone I don't even remember. It actually sounds ridiculous now that I'm trying to say it to you. So I'm sure it was probably better when they said it. But you know that someone is like tossing babies down the river. Right. And you want to catch them further up the river. Right. Like you don't want to let them go down. Right. It sounds ridiculous. 

David 43:19

I know what you're talking about. 

Tashmica 43:21

Yeah. 

David 43:21

And that was a convoluted way of communicating it. But thank you. 

Tashmica 43:26

Yeah, thank you. I listen, I recognize that this is convoluted because I don't remember how it was told to me, but I started to feel like I was catching them in the ocean. Like by the time these children and families got to us, not only was it the child who had been harmed, the parents have intergenerational trauma. They're working within a system that maybe involves the criminal legal system and the family policing system. The hospital was doing a sane examination in a way that was more about collecting evidence than it was about supporting the children that were actually the ones who were hurt. There was just so much about it that felt like it was valuable in the lives of the people that I was able to provide care for. And I do not regret that. And I do not think anybody is doing anything wrong, wrong by providing those services or offering care in any, any way, stretch of the imagination. But for my soul, when I am saying to people that my work is about ending child sexual abuse, but I'm not feeling like I'm doing that work, that I'm just giving presentations about how terrible child sexual abuse is, like, we don't all know that. Or like trying to convince someone that being trauma aware, not even trauma informed, just aware, is worth their time. I'm just like, this is not going to do it. Like, this is not. I'm feeling like maybe what I should be doing is actually more connected to helping people understand how all of these systems that create and or perpetuate lots of forms of violence are also the things that are causing child sexual abuse. And if we cannot agree to start ending those things, dismantling them in a slow, thoughtful way, unlike fascists, we're actually never going to see the end of it. And that felt like a misalignment in my spirit that I couldn't quite get over. And it also became really difficult to say to people, to be honest, about the fact that I don't think that we're doing what you. You think we're doing here. Right. Like, I believe in what we're doing, but I don't think it's what needs to be done. And People are so protective of so many of those systems that to be able to transition into a space where we would actually start talking about those things again, then we became the enemy because people do not trust that those systems are as harmful as people. Black people, people of color have been saying that they are for 30, 40, 50 years. And that's a real challenge. And so I just felt like I have to start telling a different story and working on this from a different angle. Yeah. 

David 46:13

I think there is so much there when we think about, I would say decent human beings who care about like, oh yeah, child sexual abuse, bad. They don't always think of like the upstream causes that lead to that. And like, when ultimately what you end up questioning is capitalism, the police state and patriarchy. What is it that you're doing? Oh yeah, Here, here's this PowerPoint presentation and the 80% women who you're giving the presentation to and the 15% of like, more evolved men and like the 5% of like men who are like, I don't know about this, like, what impact. Like, you're already mostly preaching to the choir in that PowerPoint presentation. Right. And so where do you shift efforts? Like, for you, we talked about logistics of the foundation not being sustainable or something that you and the team wanted to continue to do. But I'm curious, like on a zoomed out perspective, what. Not you, Tashmeka, but like we need to be addressing. And I already know part of the answer is what we talked about earlier. There are so many ways, there are so many roles. But what are some things that you think people who are listening could take action around or educate themselves around? 

Tashmica 47:26

Yeah, Well, I think number one is that we need to start treating children like human beings. I think that's number one. I think that we do not actually care for children collectively. We do not create space for them, we do not create access for them, we don't prioritize their care and we don't provide the social supports they need to be well. And so I really do believe that the reason children are hurt so often is because we have told a story, we have a narrative around. It's for the children, do it for the children. We love to use them as political wrecking balls. Right. To make people feel bad about themselves or to shift a law or a policy that we probably don't. 

David 48:10

Serving children in Gaza. 

Tashmica 48:13

Right. Like every. They don't care about that. Right. Like, what are we talking about? And so I. There's so many times like you can tell because my shoulders are Getting closer to my ears. Like, my rage is just. There's so many times when I'm like, that's a fucking lie. You don't care about these children. This law is not. First of all, it's not even connected to money. So you can dream all day and write laws all day, but if you can't give children food and housing and child care and health care, it means all at the end of the day. Right? Like, people need tangible things. These are practical problems as much as they are ideological problems. Like, they actually need those things. And it's so frustrating to me to be in a world with people who will constantly say that they do everything for the children. It's all for the children. But we won't even change the way we care for, like, the way we even think about children to serve their best and highest good. 

David 49:12

Right, right. As subjects. Sorry, as objects to, like, mold and control versus, like, people to, like, be in relationship with or. 

Tashmica 49:19

Right, right. They're whole human beings. They're whole human beings. And, you know, I love to tell the story about giving birth the first time and remembering what it felt like to go from this imaginary human that was connected to my body, inside my body, to having them place this little nugget on my chest and having this realization that was like, oh, shit, this is a whole person. Everything that I have imagined about this tiny human up until this point, completely irrelevant because this person is wholly different than me. I don't even know this person. And I'm still learning this person, you know, this person is now. You know, he's 22 years old. He's like a whole human being. Right. Like, I know I keep saying that, but I think we shrink children down into what we want them to be or what we want to imagine them being, but we're not leaving them enough space to be who they are. And there's all kinds of reasons for that. And I think that's. That's the first thing is, like, we have to stop doing that or we have to start treating children like humans. We have to give them autonomy. We have to support. Support their power, their identity creation, all of those things. But what's really difficult about that is that in order to do that, adults have to figure their out. Like, adults really have to start doing their own work and changing. And a lot of that that is put on our kids is stuff that we're not able to give to ourselves because of how we were raised or how we were indoctrinated or the violence that we experienced. That Told us what was safe or what wasn't safe. And so a lot of this does fall on how we are raising children, how we actually care for them, but also how we create the possibility for doing those things because we tend to our own wounds, our own fucked up belief systems and our own work. Really. 

David 51:26

Yeah. What comes to mind, as you were saying, that is like, we don't care for the child in ourselves, right? And so like, how are we going to extend that care to literal children? I'm in therapeutic slash healing spaces like five times a week for myself right now for like various things that are happening. And when I think about what little David would have benefited from and like my, for those who are aware, like adverse childhood experience, like my ACE score is very, very low. Right. And think about the other people in the world who move through the world with higher ACE scores that like, haven't done or haven't given themselves or haven't been given the time, space and capacity to tend to those things. Like, and this person is running XYZ branch of government enacting these policies. They're not thinking about like the downstream. 

Tashmica 52:15

Effects because they're not or they don't care. 

David 52:18

They do not have the capacity to care about like what that's going to be as long as it's serving another agenda that they see as valuable or palatable. And that's just hard. And like, it gives me infinite hope that everyone who's making those decisions, everyone who is casting a vote, everyone who is signing a policy, how everyone doing those things is a person whose life experiences have led them to that point. And relationships and inner work and sometimes pressure from community can shift individual actions. I get a, I have a harder time imagining that on like the Trump Netanyahu level, but like on like the individual administrators of programs, funding decision makers, like those, those changes are possible through various means of persuasion, education, enlightenment, accompaniment. And I know when you say I consult and like, that means like a bunch of different things. Some of those things are around those policies, some of those things are around those issues, others are not. And so I'm curious what this expansive time coming out of the cocoon of the last couple years has led you to create, offer support people with. Through Alethea consulting. 

Tashmica 53:32

Yeah. So I gave myself three months at the beginning of the year to just see what happens. I have always done a little bit of consulting on the side because capitalism, but also. Right there's some things that just don't fit under the mission of the Org. And so you branch off and Do a side project. But as I waited and kind of, like, felt my way through and was doing some writing, I started to do things like helping someone work through their own uncoupling process. So I call him my wusband, Paul, who I used to be married to. We decided to transition out of our marriage, and we wanted to do it in a way that was in alignment with our values and really maintain our priorities around transitioning our relationship versus severing or having this animosity. And I'm really grateful that I was married to someone who was able to do that with me, that has really treated me with a lot of care and respect and been really equitable and fair in the way that we've processed through all the things, right? Like, we have one child who's still a minor. We. We at the time, we had more than that, but we shared a home. It's like everybody else's divorce, right? Like, we had things to parse through. We had legal things we have to figure out. And we've really been able to do it in a way that I felt really good about that. I felt like the way I had talked to my kids about their first romances was that I got. I got nervous when my kids started dating seriously at their age. So we'll use quotes seriously. But to be fair, though, they have been. Their relationships are actually really long term. So my kids are. That's a whole other story. We could talk about that later. But I mean, to be fair, you. 

David 55:28

Had your kids at, like, almost their age, so. Yeah, right? Yeah. 

Tashmica 55:34

So I was so worried about their heartbreak, though. We all remember our first love and what it felt like when those relationships ended and maybe how those relationships ended were not necessarily good in the way that we treated one another. And I started to sort of think about what my kids would need in this part of their life and started to talk to them about what it means to transition out of relationship. And these were lessons that I had gotten from queer beloveds who were poly or who had different relationship formations that I wasn't even used to. But I knew it was possible. I knew it was possible to transition in and out of different kinds of relationships and communicate and still maintain love for one another and get closer and get farther apart and, like, do all of that. And I wanted them to know that. And then I'm the one who got a divorce. Like, they're still all in the same relationships. We. I laugh because I'm just like. I think it's so funny that so many times as A parent. I think I'm leading them towards a thing. And then I find that I was preparing myself for the next thing, which is still allowing me to model for them, which I'm really proud of that. I'm proud that Paul and I weren't just telling them that, but when we found ourselves in a moment where we needed to transition our relationship, that all of those lessons didn't turn into, like, this hypocritical thing that we told our kids one time, that it was actually something that was embedded into our value system, that turned into actionable things that we did together in front of our children while they are still in those very same relationships. So now they have an idea about what's possible when relationships transition that isn't scary. That isn't about somebody cheating on somebody else or ghosting somebody else or doing harm to one another or being petty. Although I. You know, I can't claim that I've never been petty. Like, we are still human. So I don't want to give this idea that, like, of course I'm grateful to Paul. He hasn't been per. He hasn't been perfect. I haven't been perfect. And also, I think that modeling even conflict for your kids and how to resolve it and as long as you can do it in a healthy and safe way matters. And so that's sort of where I found myself. And then as I'm consulting, someone reached out to me to see if I could help them do the same thing. And I felt really honored that I was able to do that for another couple of years. And so, similar to that, I started Galaxy Guide, a TJ parenting platform. Because the thing about it is, I really believe, like, I'm talking about adults fixing their shit. I want to make sure that people understand that. I'm not saying only parents. We also have this idea that only parents are responsible for children. But we adults create the world that children are in, and we are all responsible for the experience of the children in our country. That's what I believe. And so that means that we all actually have a stake in supporting more liberatory spaces, curriculums, groups, camps, whatever for children. We're all responsible for creating that for them. And so the TJ parenting platform is for parenting people specifically. And that could be a grandmother, a foster parent, a cousin, a big cousin. You don't have to be in the role of parent to participate in a conversation about helping our children get more free. And ultimately, that's the work that I've done in my own home and So a lot of these things, like what I'm thinking, I'm like, it's just stuff that I've picked up along the way that I've learned and that I've practiced in my own life and that I've seen what it means for children to be in spaces where they are more free and more trusted and loved in a way that isn't about control and containment, but is more about exploration. And I like to say, I'm a go with you parent. Like, I'm going with you. Like, whatever it is. I'm not necessarily saying no. I'm saying, how do we make that happen if we can do it? And can I go so that we're. So that we're all on the same page, right? We're a part of. This is a. This is a shared experience where my children are not left to their own devices with things that they're not necessarily prepared for if and when I can help it, and if and when I am invited on those journeys. Because as we know, we don't get to know everything about our kids. But that's. Those are a couple things that I've done. There's. There's, of course, restorative justice work that I have been invited into circle keeping. There's trainings. I just did a training for the Directors Guild of America. I did a malicious compliance training for students at Michigan State University because I think malicious. 

David 1:00:23

Say that one more time. Malicious compliance. 

Tashmica 1:00:26

Yeah, Malicious compliance. 

David 1:00:29

Yeah, okay. 

Tashmica 1:00:29

Yeah. Malicious. Malicious compliance. Because what I've been saying to myself that may or may not be true, is that there is no better time for our rule breakers, our criminals, our liars, our mischief makers to shine than during the rise of fascism. And I'm like, now's the time if you want to be petty and try to break a rule in a way that slows down the cogs of a. Of a wheel that's trying to kill us. I support you. And so I did a training talking about some of the ways in history that our ancestors, our forebears, participated in malicious compliance and talk to people about, dreaming about their skills, their unique skills, their professional skills, especially as some of them are students coming into their professional lives for the first time, how they might be able to use those skills to actually protect people when they have privilege, even in ways that are dishonest. Truly. Because I'm like, one thing I'm not going to sweat is lying to a fascist, right? Like, one thing I'm not going to lose sleep about is fucking up a system that's fucking up people in ways that are irrevocable. And so really just also wanting to encourage people to have an imagination for resistance that isn't just about marching, that isn't just about this idea of collecting guns for self defense. That isn't just about the ways that we always have done it because we are in a moment that we have not yet experienced. So we might need to create some new skills, some new tools to address it than what we have used before. And we might have some skills, tools that our ancestors have left for us that need to come back into the future. And so really wanting to support people in dreaming about how we do that, how they do that, while also remembering that we still deserve to care for ourselves throughout this time. 

David 1:02:29

Yes, to all of those things. We'll talk about malicious compliance in a second and Galaxy Guide is the place where our conversation on Tuesday, August 12 if you're watching this before that, you can click down below to to sign up and get connected with that. But I want to call back to the second or third who are you statement. When you talked about being a former evangelical or exvangelical and the idea of divorce in that community is like so taboo and so like, as you were talking about parenting your kids, but also like parenting yourself through that process. How much of that. I'm married, so we're married for life from here to the pearly gates, right? How much of that was the energy that you were wrestling with? 

Tashmica 1:03:15

You know, I think that is certainly the mindset that I got married with. That is. That's definitely a cultural norm. That was a part of my life. I would say that that was less of my concern at this stage of my life. I was already in a place and continue to be in a place where the opinions or theology of the Christian church feels less relevant. And honestly, that's funny. I was like. And honestly, less honest. There's so much about what is doctrine within the Christian church that isn't even necessarily biblical, or if it is biblical, it's been reframed in a way that supports the patriarchy. Right. And I believe that our relationships are actually more important and too valuable to force them to stay the same despite what's happening in them. And so in my view, once I realized that neither of us were getting what we needed, it felt more like an act of love for both of us to transition into something different than a act of sacrilege. And I think that we have this idea that relationships must last a long time and not just marriage. Right. Like, there's lore around all kinds of relationships, and really, length is one of the factors that determines whether your relationship has value. And I just don't believe that. I think that relationships can look all kinds of ways. Most relationships do not last forever. Most relationships are for a period of time that is all often not even determined by the people in the relationship sometimes. And so I think I am willing to trade just about anything these days for what I would consider more freedom. And I think that I also wanted that for my husband. Right. Like, I want everyone who is in any form of relationship to feel like they want to be there. Because the thing about being in a relationship that you don't want to be in anymore is that you're just hurting, right? Like, you may be not hurting each other necessarily, but you're certainly not doing yourself any favors. And I think that has really been what pushed me away from feeling bad about it and more towards. But what's possible if we do transition? What does my relationship look like with my husband when we live in separate homes? What does it look like when my kids are able to walk up a block and up four blocks to their dad's house versus, you know, having, like, a complicated custody arrangement or whatever? Like, what does it look like to separate our lives in a way that sets us both up for a future that's good, that we're both sustainable? What does it look like for my husband to still be my emergency contact for a really long time? Yesterday he called me and was like, hey, I don't know if you know, but our niece's birthday party is tomorrow, and I. I might stop by, but I wanted to make sure you knew because I, you know, like, if you wanted to stop by, you should. And, like, we're just talking about it, and I'm like, how lovely that I am in a relationship with someone who I'm no longer married to. That our level of intimacy has certainly changed, and yet he still thinks about whether or not I would want to be notified about my niece's birthday party. Right? And so, like, I'm not saying that I wouldn't have gotten invited while we were married. Obviously, that's not true. What I am saying, though, is that a divorce does not necessarily mean that our relationship is no longer valuable or that our relationship is somehow less than anybody else's relationship in the world. I think we have just found a way to be the best versions of ourselves to our kids, to create a future for ourselves that we both want, that we both deeply desire. And I think We've actually found ways to support one another in that so that, you know, I think about what he needs. I think about if I can do a thing for him. Like, what is going to be most helpful for you? You know, on this weekend when I've got this going on, sometimes my dogs are over at his house because I'm having a party and my dog's old and he can't handle the noise. And so I think the most important thing that I'm trying to say is that there is a world that exists in which ending intimate partnership, relationship, marriage is not a destructive thing. It can actually be something that is really full of possibility. And while there is heartache, for sure, like, of course, of course it's difficult to transition out of a relationship. We were together for 20 years in a very specific kind of way. So I'm not going to sit here and be like, oh, it was easy. And we all just like, you know, we figured it out. And also I feel like we did a little bit and we did it in a really loving way. And I don't have a lot of anxieties about whether or not I'm going to be able to maintain a relationship with the father of my children. Like, I feel really good about that. And I don't think the church actually has any relevant advice for me given what their relationships look like. 

David 1:09:11

Sure, sure. 

Tashmica 1:09:12

You know, like, of course there are Christian people have wonderful relationships, I'm sure. And also if you've ever seen former trad wives on TikTok, or if you've ever seen how relationships end, even within people who will swear that they are born again Christians who love everybody except their ex wife or husband, that person can die and go to hell and burn it, you know, like, whatever. And so I think the thing that was difficult, though, to be honest, was that it was really challenging to find people that we could talk to about what we were doing. Because to have an imagination for a relationship like ours to transition into a friendship was not something that a lot of people had. A lot of people were more likely to be like, wait, but when my parents got a divorce, or when I got a divorce, don't let her steal your money. Don't let him take advantage of you and not give you money or what. A lot of it did come down to money and property. And so that was a little frustrating because I did want to have people around me that I was like, hey, I'm trying to figure out what is the fairest way to deal with this thing that we're trying to share, split, sell, whatever. And I really wanted people to be in that imagination with me. And that was difficult because there's a lot of people who just couldn't imagine it. 

David 1:10:38

Yeah, no, definitely. And I'm grateful for that. Share. And having been in a relationship for a decade or just over a decade, like, like, this even, like, the thought of, like, that shifting is. There's a lot of grief there. And so, like, I. I didn't by any stretch of the imagination think that was easy or not a sad process. 

Tashmica 1:10:58

Yeah. 

David 1:10:59

But, like, I am glad that, like, the Christian guilt wasn't, like, something that you were wrestling with, because I do think that does exist for a lot of people, and maybe not even just Christian, but traditional American values where we. Where we sit, like, is built around the nuclear family and, like, the pressure to make sure that that stays intact, both for, like, financial reasons, like you mentioned, because, like, hey, in aging, right, like, who's there to support me or, like, be alongside me? Like, there are lots of things to continue to evolve into and figure out over the next couple decades for yourself, but I'm glad at least, like, that specific thing wasn't a barrier for you. 

Tashmica 1:11:36

Well, you know, one of the things that also happened was that I recognized how much I undervalued other relationships. As I was transitioning out of my marriage, I was talking to a friend, and I was like, here are the responsibilities that Paul held that I am like, I don't know if I'm be able to do these dog. Like. Like, these are not my gifts or my ministry. You know, I did find a child who is mowing my lawn now that I think I. Yesterday I was like, God bless the child who mows my lawn. I was singing Billie Holiday to him, and he didn't even know, but I was like, you know, I just don't know if I'll be able to do these things by myself. And she was like, why would you have to do that by yourself? Like, you have people, you have community. But similar to what you're saying, like, not even a Christian perspective necessarily, but traditional American values is that your partner is the person that you depend on for the things that in the absence of having a husband, I was like, I have to do everything by myself. That's not true. It has never been true. And yet that was my default setting. And I think having a friend sort of right size that perspective for me and challenge me to really start to think about my broader community truly as family, more than I had in the past. Like, who do I contact when I'm now traveling out of the country? Right. Like, who are the friends that have access to my home who can show up in a pinch when I'm in a pickle? Like, who are these people? And how do I structure my life so that that's reciprocal? It becomes more important. And I think truly our relationships, whether we're partnered or not, will be stronger if we are not just super reliant on a single partner to meet all of our needs. And that became really crystal clear as I transitioned out of not just the relationship, but had to really shift my mindset around something I didn't even really know I believed. You know, it was kind of baked in. 

David 1:13:41

Yeah, definitely. One of the things that keeps playing in my head is that in all of these ways, like a through line is like the upstream effects, both like, what you're modeling for your kids, modeling for people that you're in community with, and modeling for people who, like, you're talking to right now across space and time. Hey, are in some ways addressing the upstream effects that do impact child sexual abuse. 

Tashmica 1:14:06

Exactly right. 

David 1:14:08

And the work of Firecracker foundation is still alive. Tashmeka is wonderful doing her thing. Ways to be connected with her are down below. If you're listening to this before Tuesday, August 12th, we're going to be in deeper conversation about parenting on the Galaxy Guide platform that she has set up. But I'm really grateful for the time and depth and the wisdom and experience that you've shared. Anything else you want to leave the people with? 

Tashmica 1:14:34

Yeah, I think I really appreciate what you said. I think that's part of the reason why I don't feel guilty either. I feel like so much of the Firecracker foundation were seeds planted, were ripples that I will never fully be able to conceptualize. I'll never understand what impact it had on people's lives. But I do know that it's out there. I do know it exists. And every now and again, I get a little hint. Someone will say something or send me a message or I'll be reminded. I'll pick up something and remember that volunteer or that client or that person who gave it to me or why it's significant. And, you know, I think that is really the key thing about all of our work. Work, really. It's not finite, actually. Our work continues on without us. It's not something that I have to be, like, spinning all the time. Right. Like, the work exists. It has an impact. It will exist into the future. And I will always get to enjoy that knowledge, whether I get to exist in a present moment with it or not. But it's not meant to be like that. I think our work is meant to be sort of like a mandala that is here for the moment, and we release it into the world, we give it as a gift to other people, and then we go on to create the next thing. We go on to be who we are in the next moment. And if anything, this moment has really taught me about the gift of impermanence and the freedom of allowing ourselves to. To not be the same person forever, and what that can bring into our lives and what kind of possibility that can shape in our futures. 

David 1:16:19

Yeah, the possibilities for that are endless for you, Tashmika. I'm grateful to be able to witness it. And the possibilities are endless for you. Dear listener or viewer, however you're engaging right now, a better world is possible. And until we meet again across space and time in these digital streets, may you be safe, may you be happy, may you be healthy, may you live with ease, and may you work for a world where that can be possible for everyone. Peace.